Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
02/24/2022 01:30 PM Senate HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB169 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | SB 175 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 169 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 169-SMOKE/FIRE DAMPERS & SMOKE CTRL SYSTEMS
1:32:05 PM
CHAIR WILSON announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 169
"An Act relating to the inspection and testing of fire dampers,
smoke dampers, combination fire and smoke dampers, and smoke
control systems; and providing for an effective date."
1:32:39 PM
MELODIE WILTERDINK, Staff, Senator Mia Costello, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, stated smoke and fire damper
systems are part of a three-legged stool that, in conjunction
with fire alarms and sprinkler systems, keep a building safe.
Fire alarm and sprinkler systems require highly trained
individuals to perform the inspections. SB 169 seeks to have
trained individuals perform smoke, fire, and combination system
inspections so that all three systems are in working order to
protect life.
1:33:40 PM
SENATOR HUGHES stated that based on Mr. Schurig's presentation
and conversations with workers in the construction industry,
building owners need to ensure maintenance workers and equipment
installers understand how damper systems work. Doing this would
get to the root of the problem and prevent foolish mistakes. She
stated she is not against raising the bar for damper
inspections, nor does she wish to delay the bill. However, the
public must know that inspections alone will not solve the
problem. A damper propped open by an object leaves it
inoperable. In the event of fire between inspections, the damper
would not close, and smoke inhalation could occur. She opined
that it is imperative that school maintenance workers properly
tend to the systems as no one would want children dying of smoke
inhalation. Maintenance workers, installers, and building owners
should take responsibility for understanding fire systems
because system information does not always trickle down from
inspectors.
1:36:46 PM
CHAIR WILSON moved to adopt Amendment 1, work order 32-
LS1386\A.1.
32-LS1386\A.1
Bannister
2/24/22
AMENDMENT 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR REINBOLD
Page 2, line 19 "following program,":
Insert "a mechanical engineer registered under AS
08.48, a licensed fire protection engineer,"
1:36:52 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD objected for purposes of discussion.
CHAIR WILSON stated that Amendment 1 allows a mechanical
engineer registered as a licensed fire protection engineer under
AS 08.48 to perform smoke and fire damper inspections. Amendment
1 was based on public testimony heard in committee.
1:37:25 PM
MS. WILTERDINK agreed; the committee heard that mechanical and
fire engineers have the training and knowledge to inspect and
identify problems. They should not be excluded from the list of
capable inspectors because they are trained to identify
problems, unlike others that are currently allowed to perform
inspections but lack training. Smoke and fire damper inspections
occur every four years, except in hospitals which are every six
years. A trained professional will find a problem upon
inspection, whereas an untrained individual may not identify a
problem for many years, if ever. The purpose of SB 169 is to
ensure inspectors are qualified and capable of identifying
problems.
1:38:26 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if anyone could obtain inspector
training.
1:38:39 PM
MS. WILTERDINK answered yes; accreditation is through the
American National Standards Institute (ANSI); any organization
that becomes accredited can offer the training. An accredited
school could provide training to students. An organization could
also hire an accredited individual to offer training to
employees.
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if an estimate for training costs was
obtained.
1:39:20 PM
MS. WILTERDINK answered that training costs vary. For example, a
building owner might arrange for training and certification. The
owner could bear the cost or request that participating
employees pay a fee. Some unions have received accreditation,
and membership dues pay for training and certification. Schools
might also be accredited, and students' training costs could be
part of their tuition.
SENATOR REINBOLD asked why SB 169 has a finance referral but no
fiscal note.
CHAIR WILSON replied that a bill with an indeterminate fiscal
note goes to finance.
1:40:57 PM
SENATOR BEGICH stated that the last line of the fiscal note for
SB 169 reads, "Therefore, an indeterminate fiscal note is being
submitted." This statement recognizes that SB 169 has an
associated cost, so the fiscal note is submitted to the finance
committee. In other words, the fiscal note is not a definitive
zero.
SENATOR REINBOLD commented that she understands why SB 169 would
go to the finance committee if it is a cost to the state but not
if it is a cost to the private sector. Finance is backed up, so
it would help if SB 169 could skip the finance referral.
1:41:42 PM
CHAIR WILSON replied that there would be a cost to the state
because, through the Department of Public Safety (DPS), the note
allows the Fire Marshal's office to establish a fee for the
service. The fee amount is unknown, so the fiscal note could be
negative or positive.
1:42:08 PM
SENATOR BEGICH stated a request could be made to the Senate
President to waive SB 169 from the finance committee since the
amount would be minuscule in terms of fiscal impact. He said he
was willing to make the request and suggested others do
likewise.
SENATOR REINBOLD said she would let Chair Wilson decide whether
to request a referral waiver. She asked whether it was correct
that the State Fire Marshal had no issues with SB 169.
CHAIR WILSON replied that is correct. He stated he did not feel
comfortable removing the fiscal note from the Finance Committee
without speaking with the sponsor. He suggested the sponsor talk
with the Senate President about its referral to the Finance
Committee.
1:43:30 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD removed her objection.
1:43:32 PM
CHAIR WILSON found no further objection [and Amendment 1 was
adopted]. He solicited the will of the committee.
SENATOR HUGHES stated she has learned that smoke and fire damper
inspections are already required by regulation. SB 169 would
make inspections statutory. From the previous meeting on SB 169,
she had understood there were no inspection requirements. She
opined that having provisions in regulation and statute was a
bit redundant. She stated that large municipalities, such as
Anchorage and Fairbanks, do not fall under the jurisdiction of
the State Fire Marshal. She asked if large cities have fire
marshals and whether the sponsor of SB 169 would support a
conceptual amendment to page 2, lines 23-25, stating findings of
noncompliance would be given to municipal jurisdictions in
addition to building owners and the State Fire Marshal.
1:45:21 PM
MS. WILTERDINK replied that Anchorage has a fire marshal and
would fall under SB 169, page 2, line 18, "a municipality with a
fire and life safety inspection program." She said the State
Fire Marshal does not review every jurisdiction's reports. The
purpose is to keep records in a central location.
1:45:53 PM
SENATOR HUGHES agreed that it is good to have a central
repository. However, she opined that the Anchorage Fire Marshal
should be aware of buildings that are not compliant. She stated
her belief that the State Fire Marshal and the appropriate
person in a jurisdiction should receive copies of the non-
compliance report.
CHAIR WILSON commented that he would not want to decide without
hearing the impact it could have on municipal fire departments.
He said the committee does not know whether the requirement
exists within municipal fire departments.
1:47:03 PM
MS. WILTERDINK stated she does not know the reporting
requirements of individual jurisdictions. The intent of
reporting to the State Fire Marshal is to have one repository.
She does not know if the sponsor would oppose reporting to
presiding jurisdictions.
SENATOR BEGICH referred to page 2, line 17, and stated his
belief that if a municipality has fire inspectors, it will be
doing the inspection. In effect, if a municipality has a fire
inspector doing the inspections, statute requires the report to
be sent to the State Fire Marshal.
1:49:19 PM
JENS SCHURIG, Organizer, Sheet Metal Workers Local 23,
Anchorage, Alaska, stated it is the building owner's
responsibility to keep the inspection findings report in case a
municipality asks to see it. A municipality could also get the
inspection report from the State Fire Marshal, so it is
redundant for the city to hold it.
1:49:52 PM
SENATOR HUGHES responded that she disagrees because not sending
the information to the local fire marshal puts an extra burden
on the fire department as it would have to ask each building
owner for a findings report. The suggestion that local fire
marshals receive reports of non-compliance is essential. The
reports pertain to the area they service for fires.
Municipalities that may require the report are of no
consequence. Those that do not require it should receive it. The
inspection report is already being supplied to two entities.
Suppling it to local fire marshals is easier than the fire
marshals collecting it. She asked whether municipalities
contract out smoke and fire damper inspections to independent
inspectors. If so, it cannot be assumed that local fire marshals
would get the report.
1:51:45 PM
MR. SCHURIG stated that a fire marshal visits businesses
unannounced and checks fire safety equipment such as fire
extinguishers, cooking hoods, fire alarms, and sprinkler
systems. They also ask for the smoke and fire damper report that
the building owner is required to retain. Fire marshals or fire
department inspectors show up on the premises because they must
do a visual inspection to sign off the report. He stated he
would not sign off a report that had been emailed.
SENATOR HUGHES said she is not expecting the fire marshal to
sign anything and stated her belief that the inspection report
is life and safety information that each jurisdiction should
have. She commented that there is no harm in having an
inspection report sent to a fire marshal if the inspection is
done by an "other person," as stated in SB 169, page 2, line 23.
It does not create more work for the fire marshal. It is just
information.
1:53:45 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD suggested the issue could be addressed as an
individual recommendation when it moves out of committee. She
said architects and engineers visited her, and there was
confusion concerning SB 169. A House member informed her that
the issues were resolved. She asked for confirmation that the
information she received was accurate.
CHAIR WILSON stated he would let sponsors staff respond but is
hopeful Amendment 1 addressed the confusion.
1:54:35 PM
MS. WILTERDINK stated the sponsor met with the Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors Board members and the Alaska
Professional Design Council. Both entities were concerned about
mechanical and fire protection engineers not being listed as
qualified inspectors in SB 169. Amendment 1 added these
professions to SB 169 as qualified inspectors. SB 169
specifically addresses the issue of unqualified individuals
performing damper inspections and passing buildings that are not
in compliance. The sponsor hopes to address other concerns
through separate legislation, such as smoke and fire damper
education and inspection requirements.
1:55:48 PM
SENATOR BEGICH opined that Senator Hughes is correct and
suggested that SB 169, page 2, line 25 be amended to resolve the
issue of municipal fire marshals not receiving a findings report
when performed by inspectors outside of the municipal fire
department.
1:56:55 PM
SENATOR HUGHES commented that smoke and fire damper education
and inspection requirements could be legislated separately.
However, reporting findings to local jurisdictions is relevant
to the duties of qualified inspectors. She stated she would
support an amendment by Senator Begich.
1:57:57 PM
At ease.
2:04:59 PM
CHAIR WILSON reconvened the meeting.
2:05:09 PM
SENATOR BEGICH moved [conceptual] Amendment 2.
[CONCEPTUAL] AMENDMENT 2
BY SENATOR BEGICH
Page 2, line 25 following "compliance"
Delete and to the state fire marshal"
Insert ", to the state fire marshal, and, where a
municipality has a fire and life safety inspection
program, to that program office"
2:05:18 PM
CHAIR WILSON objected for purposes of discussion.
SENATOR BEGICH read the conceptual amendment.
2:05:56 PM
CHAIR WILSON removed his objection; he found no further
objection, and [Conceptual] Amendment 2 was adopted.
2:06:04 PM
CHAIR WILSON moved to zero the fiscal note for SB 169, OMB
Component 3051.
2:06:23 PM
SENATOR HUGHES objected for purposes of discussion.
2:06:47 PM
At ease.
2:07:15 PM
CHAIR WILSON reconvened the meeting and restated his motion to
zero the fiscal note, OMB Component 3051.
2:07:33 PM
SENATOR HUGHES objected for purposes of discussion.
CHAIR WILSON stated SB 169 should have a zero effect given the
Department of Public Safety's ability to charge a reasonable fee
for the inspection service.
2:08:01 PM
SENATOR HUGHES removed her objection.
2:08:06 PM
CHAIR WILSON found no further objection and the motion to zero
the fiscal note passed.
CHAIR WILSON noted that Senator Costello joined the meeting by
teleconference. He asked if she had any closing comments.
SENATOR COSTELLO thanked everyone for working together to keep
Alaskans safe.
2:08:27 PM
CHAIR WILSON solicited a motion to move SB 169 from committee.
2:08:35 PM
At ease
2:08:49 PM
SENATOR HUGHES moved to report SB 169, work order 32-LS1386\A,
as amended, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note(s) and authorization for legislative Legal
Services to make technical and conforming changes in regard to
the conceptual amendment.
2:09:10 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD asked for clarification on the status of the
fiscal note; the zero status of the fiscal note was affirmed.
2:09:08 PM
CHAIR WILSON found no further objection, and CSSB 169(HSS) was
reported from Senate Health and Social Services Standing
Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 169 Letter 2.22.22.pdf |
SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 A. 1.pdf |
SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 PowerPoint Presentation.pdf |
SHSS 2/22/2022 1:30:00 PM SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 Sectional Analysis version A.pdf |
SHSS 2/22/2022 1:30:00 PM SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SHSS 2/22/2022 1:30:00 PM SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 Supporting Document - Trifold Brochure.pdf |
SHSS 2/22/2022 1:30:00 PM SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |
| SB 169 FN DPS.pdf |
SHSS 2/22/2022 1:30:00 PM SHSS 2/24/2022 1:30:00 PM |
SB 169 |